Upcoming Star Wars movies
Okay I know I'm the least knowledgeable around here about Star Wars but as a fan I'm kind of conflicted about these new movies coming up.
I'm concerned about the Rian Johnson trilogy. I would prefer any movies we see are based on happenings or characters that we've seen previously. Rogue one had "new" characters but also had a tie in to a new hope. I think part of it is I don't really know or have any faith in this guy cuz I don't really know him.
On the other hand these guys from Game of Thrones doing some Star Wars stuff I am more than down for! I really like the thought of a dark, GOT type of vibe for SW. Not that that is what they'd bring but i dig the idea. I'd like to have a slew of flawed characters to follow in the SW universe.
What's your thoughts?
This might surprise given my thoughts on TLJ, but I dont mind Rian Johnson being given a trilogy. I probably would have preferred he just be given that to begin with rather than work off someone elses story.
All I ask of him is to make sure he understands the background of what he is doing and respect it.
I differ from you Bird -- I want the new movies to be all new. Even the stand alones I wish were not about stuff we knew..but rather stuff just mentioned . I dont want another Obi Wan movie.. I want a movie about the guy who designed the X-Wing but refused to give it to the Empire. I dont want a Boba Fett movie, I want a movie about a desperate Tusken Raider getting his child back slavers. Stuff like that. For the stand alones.
For the trilogies..I hope they follow the original ideas.. make fairy tales for a generation that grows up without fairy tales. Simple stories of good vs evil, a hero and his quest, temptation, redemption, forbidden knowledge. Make them like mythology with grand scale and grand stories.
Tell the story of the founding of the Republic when 2 separate association of systems went to war over a spurned man's hurt feelings and his wrathful jealousy .. or tell us how the Sith first came about and how the Jedi slowly formed out of precepts designed to counter them... tell us how the first chancellor gained, then lost, then gained power as he struggled to use his natural born talents. Something universal, something timeless..something a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
All I'm worried about is movies so new they can just as well be in the Star Trek Universe or something. I'm a Star Wars fan and I want to know 100% that I'm in a Star Wars universe. To me as I'm sure most people, that universe was defined by the original trilogy. I want more than just terminology. I want Stormtroopers damn it!!
But this only goes for Rian Johnson.
Game of Thrones guys can do whatever the hell they want. (Life ain't fair, so Johnson's gonna have to suck it.)
I suppose RJ can make the Fairy Tales and then you can be happy. My old ass is totally not looking forward to that. But I want some gnarly, gritty and moody flicks. The new generation got Rey, Finn and Poe as their new heroes. Now I want my conflicted and imperfect characters that just stumble into doing the right thing to shine in cinematic glory. I'm crossing my fingers that that is more the direction the GOT guys will go.
How about we share? You get a trilogy and I get a trilogy? Win - win!! Lol...
I’m a little confused. You say you want Star Wars as defined by the original trilogy.
But then you say you want gritty, conflicted, morally ambiguous...
That’s NOT the original trilogy. Empire people call dark.. but that’s basically because it’s full of bad news as the middle of a story. Luke is still Good. And avoids temptation. The bad guys do bad. The good guys are so good we don’t even ask why they are good.
To me it sounds like you want Battlestar Galactica, and arguably Rian Johnson already started moving things that way. There’s no real Dark Side that tempts Rey, fun runners sell to both sides... I mean the main plot device of the movie was ripped straight from BSG episode.
I’m extremely opinionated I know, but I just think what makes Star Wars what it was ... is often mistaken. I think you can make something feel like it used to with none of the familiar characters if you take that original idea— create a mythology. Commit to the Space Opera. You can have deep conflict the heroes must overcome— maybe that’s what people mean by dark? , and of course there is a price to pay for Freedom/Knowledge/Grace..
But I don’t think the new movies will come close because what is immediately obvious now is that the movies are fashioned or influenced by committee, and there is not artistic struggle to put ideas to screen.
I’ve said before that if you want to recapture Star Wars is to ask the director how much money they need and then give them half and then tell them no actor can get paid more than 2 million to be in it.
Birdfinger last edited by Birdfinger
YOU'RE confused?? I'M confused why I want one thing from Rian Johnson and something totally not related from the GOT guys!! But I do. I can't really figure it out but I'm just being honest.
We will never get another OG Trilogy no matter what happens because its now nostalgic for us. The same movies can be released today and at our age, we'd most likely nit-pick it apart. Simply our age and experience has erased the chance of experiencing that kind of movie experience again. Its over. It was 3 and done and I'm thankful that it was 3 whole movies.
I’m extremely opinionated I know, but I just think what makes Star Wars what it was ... is often mistaken. I think you can make something feel like it used to with none of the familiar characters if you take that original idea— create a mythology. Commit to the Space Opera.
C'mon... who we kiddin'? Do you really think a universe as beloved as Star Wars could really "create a mythology" today that we (or you.... you can admit it) wouldn't try to pick apart? As kids we ate it up. That is one of the wonderful things about being kids! Today, in our old age we analyze and dissect and breakdown things to death. We've lost our gift of just accepting it, believing in it and riding with it. There will never be a "...make something feel like it used too..." for us. I love that you still believe it could happen but I think it's just setting you up for disappointment but I believe we are too old to "buy in" anymore.
This is why I don't want them to even try to recapture what it was for us. I want them to make Star Wars for adults in this current 2019 climate. Look, I feel like i'm a part owner of Star Wars because I grew up with it. I want it to grow up with me. So if its impossible to recapture the past, make something I can dig into at my 48 years of age. I want it to impact me as an adult to the same level that I was impacted as a child and remaking the OG Trilogy won't do it.
I hope this makes sense. I wrote it Stream of Consciousness style. Lol
PS- All I meant by "defined by the original series" is more like referencing planets, weapons, jargon, that was established in the OG Trilogy. Also, for fun I call the 70's SW flicks "OG Trilogy" meaning obviously "Original Gangsta' Trilogy". Just a term of endearment for those movies and me being goofy.
I get what youre saying,for the most part. I am not sure I agree with all of it.
Its true I am a crusty , cynical 47 year old now.. not a 5 year old.. but I dont think that has stopped me from being blown away or fully accepting of movie universes when they are done well.
As a weird example that I do think has interesting parallels: John Wick. Obviously it didnt have the global impact Star Wars had, but this is a universe that I totally bought into and I didnt just clinically shred. And it does clever tricks that both invite us in and create depth..but also -- they are vague with these ideas so that you CANT pick them apart.
In John Wicks world, the connected people use unique gold coins as currency.. usually 1 at a time. How much is a coin worth? Who makes them? How do you get them normally? We dont know. They dont talk about it. But its fucking COOL to see a dude in all black lay a single large gold coin on a counter and be handed a hotel key. Its just.. "cool".
A cop shows up at the house, 10 bad guys have each been shot at least 3 times each. For a moment we wonder if the cops showing up are going to be a problem but then we get , again, what is most easily described as a "cool" exchange.
"Evening, John. (looking behind him). Working again?"
"Im just ..working some things out."
And again..this implies so much and our mind speeds through it for a second.. but really, it adds depth and wonder.
And as we explore this universe we just get the hints at this Assassin's code and world. The Intercontinental.. with some Rules.. some people who know John.. some who like him and some who dont.. a couple of anecdotes of his past but not the real details --except a couple that again are just designed to set the character (3 guys in a bar with a pencil..a fucking PENCIL). Cool vehicle hes attached to.. cool people..cool allies.. simple story. Light on details.
And you buy into it. The more details there are, the more you can nitpick and find apparent contradictions. The more you explain things that dont need to be explained the more you preserve the magic.
Here is the paradox. Fans THINK they want things explained. But we dont. We think we do because we spend all this time in our own mind wondering about them. But ..the second you make a real answer, everyone who had a different idea is disappointed (unless the official idea is that much cooler), and no one is spending time discussing and debating and thinking about it.
Its a mistake to explain the Kessel Run bad quote, its unnecessary to tell me WHY Jedi's can use The Force, I dont need to know why Boba Fett is such an angry young man.
Filling in details and origins ..what we THINK we want.. takes away from it.
It was AWESOME when Leia mentioned Obi Wan served Leia's father in the Clone Wars.. it was awkward to see this, and then to have us wondering where the Clones went just 18 years later.. It was awesome to see C-3PO the first time... even more interesting the 2nd and 3rd time you saw Star Wars to see he seems to be part of a mass produced series with man variants.. and then dumb when you saw Anakin make him.
give me a Space Opera ..with cool comments that hint but dont detail the bigger galaxy, with big bad guys and a hero with a cool supporting cast an insurmountable task to overcome.. and I dont care if Im 50 when it comes out.. do it right, and I will be sucked in.
See..because that is another thing I disagree with you on..and I bet if you think back you might change your mind.
We DID dissect Star Wars as kids. But it held up. I know I dissected the hell out of it. I had to because when I played Star Wars I didnt reenact the movies, I made my own stories. So I had to guess what the Sand People were all about, if Han Solo eventually would use the Force (my 7 year old me didnt think so but my friend did), and what that Boba Fett guy was really like. On the play ground we endlessly debated if Darth Vader was (SPOILER ALERT) Luke's father (I was sure he was lying...), if Han Solo was dead. I spent years and years wondering how Luke would rebuild the Jedi after ROTJ. I dissected what EVERYTHING meant.. who was the other Yoda mentioned.. why does Darth have to obey his master and whats the work around? How tempting is the Dark side..
(an aside.. some of this relates to why I hate TLJ so much.. its made very , very clear in ESB that when youre just learning the Force...its dangerous. Its easy to slip into the Dark Side. Because all those human failings that are in us can lead us there -- impatience, lust for more power, feelings of revenge and anger. But essentially and accidentally, TLJ dissolves all this. Jedi arent needed becuase they dont have a monopoly on the power? What a negative way to look at it.. I always assumed the Jedi were people who studied how to use the Force without falling into the bad...)
Anyway as far as hopes and dreams.. they arent going to make a movie aimed at us. Thats kind of the key to understanding the new movies. They arent really sequels..they are reboots with enough fan service to trick us oldsters into them. Its a new movie franchise , and will never feel right because it doesnt go through the same process.
Mostly what I hear people saying these days what they really want..isnt actually Star Wars. For me.
But Im still going to see whatever gets made. And some stuff Im excited for. Mandalorian? Im way more looking forward to that than the next movie.
Okay. The first John Wick movie I lost interest in and turned off. I'll give it another shot though. My mood at the time I see a movie kinda colors it with that mood sometimes. That 1st flick was covered in "SUCKS" but it may have been me. A lot of people seem to be down the Wickster.
Ok, I'll dive in on the TLJ discussion. The Jedi sucks! Yeah I said it. They live like monks and train people that slip to the dark side and create MONSTER size armies and then go off and do stuff like destroying complete planets. Meanwhile, the Jedi are toolin' around in their birkenstocks and robes living in secluded areas of the universe (like deserts and swamps and little-ass islands) instead of building their own Empires for the good people. If less Jedi means less Darth Vaders and (some other dude that excapes me) then yeah, fade out Jedi! Nice to know ya but you all do more harm than good. I've always thought the Jedi was a hippie cult. The bad guys were more drivin and put in the work. So that issue works for me in TLJ. The Last Dirty Hippie Making Poor Choices On Who To Train.
Its awesome though that no matter what we'll still be fanboys in line at the theater no matter when or how many movies come out.
WOOO-HOOO!! Star Wars!!
I'm gonna go watch The Last Jedi again. Great movie!
A lot of people dont dig John Wick. Its ultra violent and thats not for everyone. I dont usually like mindless action, but if something is extremely stylized and well done I like it -- the first Crow movie, John Wick..
Re: The Jedi and a hippie cult etc.
Perhaps..and I will just go with perhaps..the Skywalkers suck as Jedi. For a THOUSAND generations of Jedi knights protected the Republic. And then Darth Vader came around. And presumably if those Jedi hadnt trained as Jedi to stay on the correct path some people would have been seduced to the Dark Side previously.
Beyond that..its hard to discuss this because the Prequels RUIN EVERYTHING.
Do the Jedi tool around in robes? Well..they werent MEANT TO. But George Lucas seemed to forget everything he wrote for the Original Trilogy when he quickly scribbled up a script for Episode 1.
Obi Wan was wearing robes because he was Tatooine. Then somewhere along the way, everyone forgot this. There is absolutely no reason that the clothing of Tatooine should be the designated clothes for Jedi. Luke didnt wear it in ROTJ when he was claiming to be a Jedi knight at Jabba's palace. The bartender at the cantina, Uncle Owen.. these people are not Jedi. That was just what BEN wore.
No one is suprised that Anakin Skywalker had a son when Luke's heritage comes up.. I dont think there is any reason to think the Jedi dont get married, much less feel love. On Dagobagh Yoda preached against the darker emotions. Hate, aggression, impatience. He didnt tell him not to love, he said to bury those feelings so they cant be used against him.
If we look at the original material.. you get the idea that Jedi were very secretive ninjas really.... someone might be a normal person and secretly a Jedi. Why do we know this? Because they were so rare and Force use so unknown even before the Jedi were wiped out that people dont even BELIEVE IN THE FORCE. Some hadnt HEARD of it. The jedi were a small group of knights that dealt with the biggest threats to the Republic.. under their leadership the galaxy developed into a republic. Then the bad guys held sway.. for 18 (!) years.
But yea..the prequels fuck all this up.....