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Star Wars Episode IX (Official Thread)

  • I think Freddie Prinze Jr really hit the nail on the the head when he said "the franchise isn't aging with you." When I say that I don't mean it antagonistically. I just think it's an inescapable fact that if you are like me, and I think all of you guys are in this sense, you loved Star Wars as a kid, and like so many millions of other kids, that love stuck with you as you grew older.

    I think that us "old" Star Wars fans are sort of chasing the dragon when it comes to this franchise. We want it to feel familiar, but not too familiar, because then it's just a rehash. And we want them to do some different things, but not too different, because then it wouldn't feel like Star Wars. I think that we, understandably, put unrealistic expectations on to these movies (and now TV shows) to fill an impossible void. We want Star Wars to make us feel like we did when we were young but it simply cannot do that because we are not young anymore.

    And I think that the studio has, to this point, sort of fallen to the pressure of trying to make new Star Wars for new fans that also keeps the old fans happy and I just don't think that's realistic. They HAVE to make Star Wars for the new generation if they want the franchise to be successful long term. They probably need to stop trying to cater to us old fans because we're simply not the future of their audience. And this isn't the 70s and 80s where there was virtually no competition for a futuristic, science fiction space opera in cinema. It was easy to be the biggest franchise when you were the first, the coolest, the best. But now we have Hunger Games and Harry Potter and Stranger Things and Minecraft and Marvel and whatever else there is. Star Wars was special, but it benefited from getting to be special on its own. It just no longer has that luxury. They have to give the younger generations a reason to choose it over the myriad other options out there, or at least along with those other options, and there are a lot of really cool options.

    As to the movies themselves, @aureus I actually do agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think I just look at it a little differently than you do. You (not you specifically) just simply can't go into one of these movies with a check list of things you need to see in order for the film to be enjoyable, even if it's only a subconscious check list. It is not going to meet your expectations. And that's not to say that these movies don't have objective faults and shortcomings, they absolutely do. They are far from perfect. But if you throw out your desires and your expectations it's much easier to see the things you do like about them. For example, The Last Jedi is easily the most divisive movie of the franchise, and I'll admit that the first time I watched it I was very weirded out and it really left me with a "wtf was that" feeling. But as I watched it a second and third time I started to realize that most of what that was the movie making me feel things I've never felt from a Star Wars movie before. It made me uncomfortable. And once I got past that I saw that this movie did more to advance the lore and the magic of Star Wars than any other movie has since RoTJ. It legitimately has 3 or 4 of the coolest, most interesting, most legendary and lore enhancing moments of any piece of Star Wars media ever made. And I think those things more than make up for the stuff about the movie that I don't really like.

    Anyway, I could go on and on and on about all this and I'm not even sure if anything I'm saying is making any sense. My thoughts are so abundant and scattered about these movies and I've been over what I think and how I feel about them so many times that I'm not even sure how to put it all into words anymore. That said, there's not really anything that could keep me from being excited about this last saga film and I'm hoping, wishing, praying that somehow JJ knocks it out of the park and is able to bring it all back around so that even those who don't love TLJ and TFA will be given reason to appreciate those movies for what they are and let go of their hatred, or whatever.

    And in the interest of full disclosure:

    1. ESB
    2. TLJ
    3. ANH
    4. RoTJ
    5. RO
    6. TFA
    7. Solo
    8. Prequels in any order.

    So here's a question I have for you guys: When is the last time a new version of an old thing was actually as good or better than the old one? Hard for anything to really compare with Star Wars for so many reasons but I'm just curious how many times this sort of reboot or resurrection has actually been successful in the eyes of a lifelong fan.

  • That's actually an excellent question.

    The closest that I can think about is probably the The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Before this game and the Nintendo Switch; my favorites games were classic SNES and PSX games. I'd rebuy the same game multiple times over and play them on newer consoles because they were constantly good and timeless games... I would play new games on the newest consoles but none of the games made me want to go back and play them again and again... Then Nintendo released the Switch and Breath of the Wild came out. It is now my most favorite game of all time; I've played more than 200+ hours in this game and I've even played through it multiple times over from start-to-finish.

    Before this game, my favorite Zelda game was a Link to the Past on the SNES (one of those games I'd play 10x over on various consoles) and now I compare every game to Breath of the Wild. The reason why BOTW is my favorite game of all time is that there's a level of satisfaction that I get again and again; defeating a tough enemy and claiming their weapon is still as fun as it was the first time. To bring it back to Star Wars, it's seeing Obi-Wan being struck down by Vader for the hundredth time and still feeling sad about it and seeing Luke launch a proton torpedo blowing up the Death Star is still getting excited for the hundredth time.

    ESB is better than ANH but as @Veda-the-Moor points out, it's not a stand-alone story so can it really be the best of all time when there's a beginning you need to have followed or an ending that's still to come? Yes, yes you fucking can be the greatest of all time still being the 2nd movie in the Trilogy.

    1. Star Wars ("A New Hope")

    2. Empire Strikes Back.

    3. Return of the Jedi.

    4. Rogue One.

    5. The Force Awakens

    6. Solo.

    7. The Last Jedi.. I guess.. if I ignore a ton of stuff and focus on the visuals

    Prequels.......nah. Didnt happen. Not even Darth Maul. Dont "@" me.


    “In Episode 7, I was adhering to a kind of approach that felt right for ‘Star Wars’ in my head,” Abrams tells the magazine. “It was about finding a visual language, like shooting on locations and doing practical things as much as possible. And we continue that in Episode 9, but I also found myself doing things that I’m not sure I would have been as daring to do on Episode 7.”

    Abrams credits the storytelling risks of Johnson’s “The Last Jedi” for helping show him the need to continue to be bold in “The Rise of Skywalker.” As Abrams puts it, “Rian helped remind me that that’s why we’re on these movies — not to just do something that you’ve seen before.”

    “I won’t say that I felt constrained or limited on 7, but I found myself wanting to do something that felt more consistent with the original trilogy than not,” Abrams concluded. “And on 9, I found myself feeling like I’m just gonna go for it a bit more.”

  • Im no stranger to this debate.. I guess I will make my case ONE more time. (as if..we know we will be discussing this to the grave).

    Times possibly a reboot or resurrection was successful:

    I would for sure argue that the Mad Max movies got better as they went along. The most recent is the best and its not particularly close.

    The Departed is better than its HK original.

    Christopher Nolan's Batman movies are better than any other.

    The 1983 Scarface is better than the 1932 Scarface, though for its time the original was cool.

    The new Star Treks movies have divided people.. and I get way..but theyve made the moves more accessible if nothing else and are better than the snooze fest of the very first Star Trek movie. And by the way, the original Star Trek movies also generally got better as the series went on, depending on whose turn it was to direct.

    True Grit's remake is better than the original, though both are good.

    While we are on Westersn, 3:10 for Yuma's remake was better than the original.

    Cape Fear's 1990?1991? version is better than the Gregory Peck movie and maybe the first movie to scare me.

    2017's IT is better than the old mini series.

    Not sure it counts but Daniel Craig's Bond movies are way better than anything in the past . .not just because of him..but the Jason Bourne-ization of the series helped bring it into modern cinema.

    The Brad Pitt / George Clooney gang's version of the Ocean movies are better than the Brat Packs.. and the Ocean 8 version is much worse.

    The Planet of the Apes backstory trilogy is better than the original series.

    So I dont think its a matter of just nostalgia. I know its not. Thats not why I have mixed feelings on the new Star Wars movies. Some I genuinely really like . One I hate. The others are fine. But its not just because Im old. Some are objectively bad movie making, some genuinely ignore either what we "know" or out of nowhere bring things up that shouldnt be there or dont feel right or are the wrong KIND of contrived of just make no sense. And I love Mandalorian. Im open to new ideas. I honestly am. But they have to make sense.

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    I just want to point out that my 9-year-old son saw the Phantom Menace for the first time this week and he loved it. I would never go in and tell him that he's wrong (he is wrong by the way) because I wouldn't want to spoil his fun. If he comes at me one day and says "TPM (Prequel Trilogy) is better than OG or Sequel Trilogy" I will kick him out of my house and disown him. He can have those wrong thoughts under his own roof.

    He can't wait to see Attack of the Clones... I continue to refuse to watch it with him so my wife is falling on that sword.

    I don't take any issue with your thoughts on the sequel trilogy because it's all subjective. I do look at the Sequel Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy and I think that there's no comparison in all elements of a movie; story, production, acting, CGI, etc - ST>>>>>>PT. The fact that people want to debate that makes me feel like I might as well talk "butter e-mails."

  • There are a ton of remakes/reboots/sequels that are better than the originals, usually because the original is old enough that it was extremely limited by technology and production budgets, early movie making styles and methods that are mostly only really appreciated by older generations. Originals that the younger generations aren't even aware, or barely so, of their existence. I'm talking about franchises that people of our generations watched and loved growing up and as young adults. Mad Max is a good example, Planet of The Apes is another IMO that the new ones are better than the old ones and it's not even close. But even with both of those there are large swaths of the fan bases that disagree. There's a pretty good percentage of moviegoers that just want the old shit left alone. I get it. I disagree, but I get it.

    @Veda-the-Moor I also want to be clear that I'm not saying you only don't like TLJ because you're old or that you only like the originals because of nostalgia. I'm simply saying it is impossible for us to watch them the same way as we watched the originals when we were kids. You bring up "objectively bad movie making" and whether or not I agree with you on that point it's simply not an observation a 8 or 10 year old would make watching a movie, especially not 40 years ago. It's just not possible to view these movies through the same lens as we would have and did when we were kids. That doesn't make the movies any better or worse than they actually are, it just changes the way we perceive them. And it is impossible for us to do it any other way.

  • I agree with a ton youre saying Zeb. Its not even just age..the world has changed.. I mean, once upon a time.. I waited 3 years.. 3 YEARS to find out if Darth Vader was lying and if Han was dead. And in those three years, really all I could do was read and re-read the novelizations of the first two Star Wars movies, get an occasional comic (which were already awful) and make my own adventures with my Star Wars figures. Oh and the adventures they had! I even remember a few of the "plot lines" by 9 year old self concocted. And of course debate. On my playground at school, and after school.. there were endless debates between me and friends.. Was the Darth side actually stronger? Was Luke a bad guy? Who is the "another" Yoda talked about? ( I nearly came to blows over someone saying it was Han..I didnt really like Han.. I was such a Luke stan).

    I do agree an 8 or 10 year old wont say something like "Thats just bad film making" (man kids suck). But things that are film making are often things the mind objects too, even if it doesnt know why... or are things that just bring a movie down.

    For example.. a kid isnt going to say , regarding the prequels, that the opening scene of of Episode 2 SHOULD , almost HAS TO BE, a big fight during which Anakin and Obi Wan save each other in turn with opportunities to show how close they are..instead of TELLING us in an elevator that they are now GOOD FRIENDS and should be thought of as such. They wont get it. But the movie as a whole is lessened , and Episode 3s emotional impact is almost completely undermined because we dont have that scene. Kids dont KNOW they are missing something, and couldnt tell you what it is.. but they can end up liking something less than they might otherwise because of bad movie making.

    In the new trilogy.. We undercut the mythology and the legend of the Warrior. Warriors and their particular weapons have a near mystical place in most cultures. We instinctively know that the Knight is special, and his broadsword is cool. And the Samurai has his katana and people have a reverance for these weapons. Star Wars spent quite a few scenes and considerable screen time building a mystique around the Jedi and their weapon. Then for the sake of an admittedly cool looking but superficial fight, they then go and undercut the mystique of the light saber in TFA, and then over and over again in TLJ. You dont realize whats being done consciously, a kid doesnt.. but your mind knows whats going on and a light saber isnt as cool when it doesnt seem as archaic, when it seems everyone can use one or has something that can block it.. or when of all people Luke Skywalker all of a sudden callis a "laser sword" like your grandma did in 1980 when you dressed up as Luke. **side point.. Lucas fucked this up as well by having lightsabers in every goddam scene of Episode 2

    Here are my main objections again to the new movies.. mostly with TLJ.

    1. Star Wars is and was and serves us best as fairy tales in space..they are myths on grand scales. It is Space Opera..its the 3 Musketeers.

    Its 1976 and the US is licking its wounds after after over a decade of involvement in the Viet Nam War. Every movie is The God Father, Taxi Driver, Serpico.. cynical movies, more realistic and violent than a decade before to reflect the post Viet Nam war mood. Star Wars is a breath of fresh air. Instead of the shades of gray and the antiheros being offered up.. Star Wars lifts up out of this. There is a wizard and his apprentice on a noble quest to save a princess with the help of a rogue! There is magic! There is Evil, and they are monochrome and there is good and they are Earth tones and we can cheer for the good and not feel like a naive dork for it because Luke is good and fuck the Empire because they are BAD. They are Space Nazis with uniforms to match.

    Now its 2017.. and the US is licking its wounds after over a decade of involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq and the permanent War on Terrorism. Every movie tries to either up the violence, up the cynicism, or are actually modern myths but based on the opposite of human myth building. Its actually a perfect time to go back to creating pure myths.. society is silenting begging for something Pure. But now Star Wars is studio run. Company run. Its not a mans journey to tell a story. Its a companies desire to appeal to the masses and its test marketers and focus groups now that its safest to copy and match mood. So we wont have an epic story, but rather a banal one. We wont have good and evil.. no, cynical society demands complexity for the sake of complexity. The Jedi..who weve been told protected the Republic for 1000 generations.. are now outdated and overly prideful because the Sith got the upperhand for like 20 or 25 years? Now we have to show there are weapon sellers that sell to both sides.. everyone is dirty. (contrast this with the implied heroism of the designer of the X-Wing who it was said refused to sell it to the Empire and secretly gave the design to the Rebels). We arent destroying Emperors or Super Bad Weapons.. we are running away and running out of gas in the most contrived scenario I can think of..

    1. Which leads to the Second Point:

    Ignoring what we know, or introducing things that seemingly would have come up before.

    I think Rian Johnson, frankly, felt too constrained by Star Wars. JJ Abrams sort of over imposed limits on himself..and Rian Johnson just didnt care. And so the mind constantly objects to things not being as they should be. Never before have we worried about how much gas a capital ship (or any ship) has. Its STAR WARS. We dont worry about how many shots a TIE Fighter has for its Cannon, we dont know the point of Chewies blaster being a crossbow, and we dont know how fast a TIE Interceptor goes unless we need a number for a video game. You dont get 5 movies in and then this is a thing. It HAS been established that shields can be moved around, or traded for speed. It makes NO sense for a capital ship to tell its fighters to come back because they cant cover them when a) the POINT of fighters is to go beyond the reach of the mother ship and b) the capital ship was shooting the Rebel capital ship the whole time.. that was part of the scenario.....

    Youve got like 400 survivors and youre puling rank? Youre pulling rank on the guy who 2 days ago blew up StarKiller Base AND found Luke Skywalker? And we are supposed to think YOURE in the right and hes some hot head? This is the Rebellion?

    The entire galaxy's government got blown up yesterday.. and the First Order lost a base they spent like a decade and a half building.. but.. no one is sort of scrambling to be the new government or fill the vacuum..

    Luke Skywalker doesnt seem anything like Luke.. and yea, its fiction and yea, you can rationalize it all you want.. but in Space Opera you dont turn your wizard hero into Dennis the Menaces neighbor. And by the way, doing so has cost the entire franchise dearly. The fanbase is deeply divided and although its partly over many smaller issues.. if Luke was still Luke it wouldnt be that way. It doesnt feel write. There are other ways to shock an audience..and this departure is so awful they had to redo the final scene of the previous movie and change it and hope we wouldnt notice to make it work.

    1. Bad Directing decisions.

    I cant list them all..

    The movie is allergic to emotional content apparently. If youre going to go this direction with Luke, fine..but why would you cut away when we are going to see how Luke reacts to news that Han has died? Compare this to how we felt when we saw him react to Obi Wans Death, or his father's. Everytime Luke is finally going to say something profound, or we are going to connect.. they give him a bad joke to say. It destroys mood, pacing, and impact.
    (I started this post 2 days ago, got interupted and havent had a chance to come I will just summarize).

    Rian Johnson decided basically to just go against expectations. But really, its very possible to just look at this as either trolling or a sort of adolescent undeveloped way of being "original".. just take a shit on everyones expectations.

    True creativity would have been to tell a truly original story. Instead he took all the elements of ESB but gave you what you "didnt expect". Second straight movie of lacking creativity.. why have AT-ATs in a new form, an ice planet (no, its salt! get it??!!), start with the evacuation, have someone seeking a teacher (but he threw away the lightsaber!! get it??), they get betrayed by a scoundral (but this time he really betrays them and isnt sorry ..get it?? arent we edgy???).

    Tell your own story dude, and just make it fit.

    Oh..and look..military stuff doesnt have to make MUCH sense in these doesnt..but you can take THAT too far too..

  • Lucas told his own story in the Prequel Trilogy and I won't forgive him.

    The issues you have with the sequel trilogy is essentially the subverted change to what was established in the OG Trilogy and are now turned upside-down; but the generation of fans that this is laying the seeds for their future don't care about those things yet. Doesn't mean it's right/wrong but the kids that will have grown up with these movies will not go over its flaws as those that enjoyed the OG Trilogy. I have co-workers in their early 20's that love the Prequel Trilogy and don't get what the deal with the OG Trilogy is. I also have met people who never even saw the OG Trilogy and once they did, they couldn't understand why it was such a big deal.

    My son thinks Jar Jar Binks is a great character because it was made for children to enjoy. What appeals to us 30+ years later has evolved but children still think a clown tripping over themselves is funny.

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    The only comment that I don't understand is the "pull rank" one.

  • @Veda-the-Moor Exactly my point! You cannot watch these movies through anything other than the most critical lens. And I get it! I understand! Every little inconsistency bothers you, you critique every shot and scene with the eyes of a long experienced viewer. And again, a thousand times again, I'm not saying you're wrong. Most of your criticisms I actually agree with, at least to a certain degree. All I'm saying is that these new movies will never be viewed or judged by me or you or @sammyc521 or @Birdfinger or anybody else who grew up on the OT in any other way than through the perspective of somebody who already knows the OT in the intimate way that we do and who has lived through the modernization of film and particularly science fiction.

    The OT broke ground and it changed our lives. That is inescapable. No movie, in or out of the Star Wars universe, will ever do that for any of us again, not in the same way. And that will forever alter our lens. New Star Wars is literally not for us.

  • I get that. Thats not really my criticism, at heart.

    At the heart of it, I believe you can still boil down what Star Wars was and make a Star Wars movie if you put in the effort and concentrate on what really made it so.

    Im frustrated because I dont think that is whats being done. Too much is being done to make it superficially look like Star Wars.

    And again, yes..sort of the contradictions. They didnt previously exist. They dont have to be there.

    I think if episode 8 had focused on the universals of Belonging, Revenge, Rejection.. it sets itself up right.

    If we stick with the movie Rian Johnson made, then after Snoke is dead and Kylo Ren and Rey defeat the ballet troupe THAT IS WHERE YOU END THE GODDAM MOVIE. Right there. Kylo gives his speech about leaving everything behind, reaches for Rey..her lip is trembling. Role Credits. We last see Luke (for this movie) when Rey leaves him, and its Leia who hyperdrives in the First Order ships.

    And I get that Im nit picking on the thousands of things I point out.. but I disagree in a sense that I am. All these things combine to make it bad movie making. They literally dont exist in good movies. Some of it is stuff your eye picks up and youre not really conscious of..but your brain does know, as they say. as the perfect example -- watch the hyperspace scene. So everyone knows whats going on.. everyone is at the windows to watch.. BUT WAIT. No they arent. In an attempt to look realistic, I guess, weve got extras in the scene.. and they are just chatting. Like, there are 250? rebels left.. their de facto leader is about to kamikaze their ship and there are people like "Hey, how you doing?"

    And no..its not just a generational thing either. Or not purely. Forget if they are Star Wars are not. The Prequels are bad movie making. Just objectively bad movie making. And that IS the consensus. There is a generation that liked them because LIGHT SABERS and what not. But except in mockery, the prequels didnt add to our lexicon, the prequel characters are not universal.. to this day Darth Vader, OG Stormtroopers, Leia in a metal bikini.. are common images in our culture. The music is still all over the place. Darth Maul got a cult following and so was used in other stuff..but basically the the prequels characters have not entered mainstream cultural consciousness, we dont quote them (again, except in mockery and derision).

    Anyway.. the pull rank comment refers to the admiral telling Poe Dameron to just shut up and take orders, he doesnt need to know.. ( are they different than the First Order).. Like, there are 400 of you left..arguably we dont need an admiral anyway, much less need 2 admirals, a general and who knows what else this top heavy organization has.. Dress him down for sacrificing 20? light craft for a "Fleet Killing" capital ship, not , you know, tell him the plan so you can have some plot twist at the end.. the guy youre not telling whats going on is the guy who is your best guy overall. He found Luke, he destroyed Star Killer base.. and you dont want to tell him the plan because you want to rain derision down on ...his ability to fight which just..destoyred...Star Killer .. base?


  • One of the things that I think separates the Sequel Trilogy is that the characters are flawed; none of them come out of it being great from start-to-finish.

    Poe wants to be involved because he doesn't care about his rank... but two of his superiors do.

    Finn wants to run away from the First Order at the drop of the hat.

    Kylo wants to be acknowledged for being stronger/better than Darth Vader even though he never had to suffer like Anakin did; he's basically the guy born on third trying to get credit after being balked home but he wants people to think he hit the HR.

    Luke can't live with his guilt of not being the legendary Jedi that people tell stories about.

    Han ran away to a life of smuggling because he couldn't live with his son being a mass murderer.

    Leia turned against the core government to start the Resistence because everything she worked toward ended up being the Trade Blockage from TPM.

    Some of these flaws are too much; a lot because they totally break with the fantasy story of the OG Trilogy - no one was flawed. They made mistakes but they did it for the right reasons and in the end they came out winners. Here everyone is a loser to some degree.

  • Just wanted to share this exchange from .net and see what you guys think.


  • index.jpg

    K.... I'm ready.

  • iRo is the worst kind of Star Wars fans because everything is so binary.

    I am 100% in agreement that I want Rey to be a no one; stop making the entire Star Wars universe revolved around one family conceived by space Jesus. Either Force-Users are a born with a blood defect or not.

  • I mostly agree with Vin Couve..when he pins things on Episodes 1-3.

    George Lucas needed to read his novelization of Star Wars about 10 times again before he started to write the prequels and he didnt and Star Wars is essentially fucked because of it.

    He forgot so much of his own back story, so much of what made it make sense at all..

    I disagree you ever get to say the Jedi failed or sucked. Because for a very, very long time the Jedi did protect the Republic. You have this sense they were a sort of secret society that people didnt know about. Obi Wan was a general...but I dont think it was BECAUSE he was a jedi.. he was a general..and one reason he was so successful is having access to magic others didnt. The Jedi are rumors. They werent supposed to have been a sort of parallel government. The Emperor and Darth Vader didnt even know Yoda existed.

    But..yea.. the yea the prequels portray the Jedi..its kind of hard to not say "well.. you guys almost deserve what you got...because George made you guys dumb". And that is the biggest failing. Its not because we got older, its not because of whatever else.. at the end of the day, Star Wars and ESB and ROTJ have an internal logic that makes sense.. people do what would do based on the situations they are in as presented to us. In the Prequels, thats not true. Nothing anyone does or says makes any sense when given the motivation.

    As you can sort of tell here..I dont really consider the prequels canon. I mean, I know I have to.. they are movies. They exist. But they so far digress from everything laid out.. that I essentially subconsciously ignore them. and thats why I dont think the Jedi suck. Remember what you thought of the Jedi in like 1983? Thats where I am at with them.

  • I still love ROTJ. I'm not mad about Ewoks; yes Wookies would have been cooler in theory but then it makes Chewie totally inept if he can't tell the wookies not to eat his friends.

    ROTJ is not as strong of a movie as either ANH or ESB but damn if that space fight isn't great.

    I agree with you that it's hard to take the Prequels seriously as a part of the core canon and I think that fans who are heavily invested in the TV shows are able to better rationalize the Jedi Council, the Jedi and the eventual turn of Anakin because they got six seasons and a movie (#Community) to tell the story of the Clone Wars. I actually never gave the series a chance because I thought so poorly of the Prequels but I may give Season 7 a chance once it premiers on Disney+.

    Back to TROS, only 15 days until opening night. I bought two tickets for an 8PM showing and invited a buddy of mine. It's reserved seats which is great because I won't have to fight anyone for a good spot. I've put myself into spoiler-avoidance mode to try and go in totally new. I have already planned out the next couple of viewings with my neighbor and my son.

  • @sammyc521 said in Star Wars Episode IX (Official Thread):

    I still love ROTJ. I'm not mad about Ewoks; yes Wookies would have been cooler in theory but then it makes Chewie totally inept if he can't tell the wookies not to eat his friends.

    ROTJ is not as strong of a movie as either ANH or ESB but damn if that space fight isn't great.

    I agree with you that it's hard to take the Prequels seriously as a part of the core canon and I think that fans who are heavily invested in the TV shows are able to better rationalize the Jedi Council, the Jedi and the eventual turn of Anakin because they got six seasons and a movie (#Community) to tell the story of the Clone Wars. I actually never gave the series a chance because I thought so poorly of the Prequels but I may give Season 7 a chance once it premiers on Disney+.

    Back to TROS, only 15 days until opening night. I bought two tickets for an 8PM showing and invited a buddy of mine. It's reserved seats which is great because I won't have to fight anyone for a good spot. I've put myself into spoiler-avoidance mode to try and go in totally new. I have already planned out the next couple of viewings with my neighbor and my son.

    Nice work. We've got a group of about 10 going on the 21st in reserved seating/VIP (so no one under 21 plus drinks and food). We'll probably watch it again between Christmas and New Years if we feel it's worth seeing in theaters a second time.

    I've also been in spoiler-avoidance mode. Haven't watched a single trailer/teaser since the last big trailer that dropped during SNF or MNF, whatever it was. Don't need to see anything else, not going in with expectations, just hoping to see a nice finale. I've also kind of been reserving my final opinion on TLJ until I see how it gets wrapped up.

  • I've got 5 reserved seats for 6pm opening night with the same dudes who've been with me for all the other opening nights, then later that night I have 2 reserved seats for the IMAX 3D showing at 9:45 for me and my beeitch. I've never gone back to back on opening night like that but every time I wish I had so made sense to plan for it this year. In all likelihood I'll see it again Saturday afternoon and then again Sunday night after football.

    I have my whole lead up planned to watch all 10 movies and that week's episode of The Mandalorian. Debating whether or not to include the Clone Wars movie. I suppose I probably should, just for the sake of totality, but it sort of doesn't feel necessary. Maybe throw the last couple episodes of Rebels in there? Is that doing too much?

  • Should probably just throw in all of Clone Wars and Rebels to be safe, Zeb.

  • if only there was time! maybe I'll quit my job....?

  • @Zeb-Stark worth.

  • I know this has been discussed to DEATH but this video just came out the other day and I think it is a great commentary on the state of the franchise and the fan base. This guy is not necessarily trying to explain or excuse anything that people my object to artistically about TLJ. But he does a really good job of connecting some of the plot lines and character arcs to the OT and does a great job of exploring why some of the stuff that is considered weird, or off, or wrong, but really make a lot of sense and in many cases were not only the right choices for the characters but in some ways the only choices for the characters based on what's already been established.

    I don't expect this to change anybody's mind. I do think it is a very good, thorough commentary on why I happen to believe that despite some questionable "movie making" choices, TLJ is actually very faithful to the OT and Star Wars in general and why Rian Johnson (and JJ, to a certain extent) took it the direction he did.

    This is a really good STAR WARS video, not just a TLJ video. And it's pretty funny.

    Youtube Video

  • Thank you for posting this Zeb. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

  • I'll probably listen on my drive home this evening. I never had huge problems with TLJ, and felt like most character/plot choices actually made sense. I'm definitely not in the camp that yells "THEY RUINED LUKE SKYWALKER" and refuses to listen to anything that suggests otherwise.

    Getting stoked for TROS....

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