Star Wars Episode IX (Official Thread)
Veda the Moor last edited by Zeb Stark
Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill are back. JJ treats the franchise with more reverence..sometimes too much.. he might be the guy to find a way to see Carrie off with dignity and do something with Luke to make bring those alienated by his death (or the manner of his death) back into the fold.
Or its going to feel like 150 minutes of "it looks right..it feels right..but something isnt right".
Tricky with Carrie Fisher especially.
Can't imagine we'll see much of Leia, but it is good to know that we will see her some and hopefully get a proper send off, without it being too overblown or cheesy.
I think we all assume we'll see Luke as a Force ghost. I think that I hope they leave him in sort of a "mentor" role for Rey, an inspiration to the Rebellion, and maybe he sort of haunts Kylo. Don't think I want to see him somehow be the hero again, I think it's time to let the new generation shine. I keep having this vision of Luke levitating way up in the sky with white eyeballs shooting lightning out of his fingers and it scares the shit out of me. I don't want a video game. We already have those.
Looking forward to seeing Lando, I think it's a mistake that they didn't bring him in earlier, let him and Han/Chewie have at least a moment in TFA, but better late than never, I guess.
The new cast additions Naomi Ackie, Richard E. Grant, and Keri Russell, all intriguing. I'm sure we'll learn more about their roles as time goes on.
Also be interesting to see what JJ does with Rose. Does he like the character? Will he keep her in the forefront? Or is he gonna tuck her away like Rian Johnson did with Maz (and Snap) and like George Lucas was pressured into doing with Jar Jar hahaha.
Do I have confidence in JJ's ability to close out not only this trilogy, but the entirety of the Skywalker saga fittingly? No. No I absolutely do not. But I'm hoping for the best. I hope he's putting that first, far ahead of the apparent behind-the-scenes tug-o-war that many believe to be going on.
Star Wars Celebration Chicago kicks off tomorrow and runs through Monday. Most importantly, the Episode IX panel is tomorrow morning and I fully expect not only an official title (finally) and probably a teaser trailer of some sorts. Anything less than that and I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed.
Pretty cool mural they put together for the celebration:
I dig that mural actually.
I hear you on Lando, but they could play this right and have it fit right in. The Resistance is down to like 30 people in the Falcon .. it could be Lando-ish to have not gotten involved until really, there was no where else to turn. Sucks Han and Lando didnt get a last scene together but , if Luke and Han didnt I guess we cant expect much as the mere fans.
My expectations have been beaten down by Rian so we will see where this goes. What I am hoping is for a reunification of a shattered fan base. Until Episode 8 I had never disagreed with you (Zeb) and Sammy on anything substantive in Star Wars ever.. and now we dont agree on anything. If nothing else that is the undeniable legacy of Rian at the moment.
I also want : a proper space battle. Where we can actually see some of the battle and ships are fighting ships and we can follow that.. and a battle where troops fight troops. This new trilogy has been very light on the Wars part of Star Wars. The first one had some but even then you didnt really get to follow any space ship on space ship fighting and the second one.. was the first one we didnt even get a lightsaber duel and only a very brief space battle at the beginning.
Lets get back to the roots and make us a real Space Opera with lots of WWII inspired fights that also have emotional content!
Zeb Stark last edited by Zeb Stark
Haha we don't disagree on everything, do we? When is the last time you watched TLJ anyway?
The space battles were always kind of secondary to me. They're cool and all but I've always been more of a story guy. That said, I think an epic space battle would be super appropriate at this point in The Saga. I also agree that more lightsaber use, and probably an epic lightsaber battle toward the end of the movie, would also be both badass and appropriate.
I honestly don't know what to expect. JJ is notorious for not answering questions that he poses and I can't help but expect more of that. I know that this fan base is going to fracture in half if we don't get proper resolution to both who Rey's parents are and who Snoke is and where he came from. And how he came to power. I think all of those things are super interesting and I would like to know the answers as well, but I don't feel like I need those answers for it to be a good movie and a good trilogy.
I also can't help but wonder how much the fans opinions matter in this scenario. Is there going to be some manor of appeasel, maybe doing the things the fans want simply because the fans want them? Or is it possible that we will get even less of what the fans are calling for simply just out of spite and trying to do something different than what people want and expect? I personally believe that JJ is going to make the movie that JJ wants to make despite what anybody else wants so that is my expectation going in.
Birdfinger last edited by
Amazing trailer! Christmas can't come soon enough!
The Rise of Skywalker.
Interesting title. With Palpatine apparently back I wonder exactly what it could mean? Is it the simplest answer and Rey actually is a Skywalker? If so, how? Was she created by the Force? How the hell does this all work? I need to know!
Ok I'm gonna nerd out a little bit.
We obviously don't really know anything yet. Lots to dissect in that trailer but gonna be a while before we get any real confirmations.
So it would seem that Palpatine is back in at least some capacity and I'm willing to bet that if that is the case that he was never really gone. Either he put Snoke in power to rule in his stead or Snoke "saved" him and kept him alive, Darth Plagueis or not, who knows. Either way, I'm pretty certain we'll finally know in some capacity the where, why & how Snoke came to lead the First Order.
Obviously this is even more ammo for those who believe that this entire sequel trilogy "shits" on the original trilogy (I've heard that exact phrase many times) and that it basically undoes everything that Han, Luke & Leia accomplished when they defeated the Empire in the OT.
BUT, if you think about it, in ESB Yoda told Luke that if he went to help his friends he would be destroying "all for which they have fought, and suffered." So at the end of RoTJ we are left with either accepting that Yoda was wrong OR we just haven't learned yet exactly what that all meant. Now, do I think that's what was originally meant by Yoda's words? I dunno, probably not. But it works.
To the title, The Rise of Skywalker, that could obviously mean any number of things. We know JJ likes to pose questions without ever really intending to answer them, but I don't think he can get away with that here. Many theorize a Kylo redemption, I kind of lean toward this right now. Others think it could be a reference to Luke sort of ascending to some sort of super saiyan Force ghost or something like that. Another theory is that Rey is going to start some sort of new Jedi Order but instead of using the term Jedi it'll be Skywalker. Like the Knights of Skywalker or something like that. Not my favorite theory but it could be interesting.
Some still cling to the idea that Rey is in fact a Skywalker, whether the daughter of Luke or Leia, or that she was somehow created by the Force (would be interesting to see how they'd make that work). I still think this is the most likely scenario, although I know they've been big on subverting expectations in these films, and rightfully so. Everybody thinks they know exactly what they want to see, but I don't know if you've ever seen a movie where you were accurately able to predict everything that happens, but it isn't really much fun for most people.
So is Palpatine really back? Did he survive the fall down the shaft and subsequent crash to whatever planet that is? Or are we going to get some sort of clone? Maybe he's been able to survive in the spirit realm and he's been able to inject his consciousness into other bodies to survive or something like that. Pretty popular theory based on stuff we know in both the canon and non-canon EU.
Either way, we're probably going to get some explanation on Snoke and how and why he came to lead the First Order, and we'll probably get some resolution as to who and/or why Rey is who she is and can do what she can do. I'm sure there will still be some unanswered questions, that's just the way this shit goes (especially with JJ at the helm). But the fact of the matter is that we're most likely going to get some or most of the info that people have be clamoring for, and a lot of the people who were all up in arms because we didn't get all of our questions answered in the second movie of a trilogy should probably feel pretty silly for getting all emotional about that.
Oh, and as to "Rey's parents":
Ok.. so.. despite The Last Jedi's best efforts..Im still a Star Wars fan at heart and can be manipulated. And this teaser has piqued my interest more than I expected. Its honestly hard to overstate the damage The Last Jedi Jedi did to my fandom. But here we are..and lets talk this teaser..trailer..commercial. Whatever Im meant to call it.
So I will mostly just reply to @Zeb-Stark ...
Well, what to make of the Palpatine laugh. My initial guess is where Im still heading with it..and its not good. Thats a clone, right? Lets do some time travel.. its like 1992? Its 9 years since the last (and at the time we really thought it would be the LAST ) Star Wars movie was made. Im in college. Im still a Star Wars fan..but with little to be a fan of in the pre widespread internet days. X-Wing the video game.. ANYWAY>..to the point.. I I started reading the books. The Star Wars novels Lucas finally and begrudgingly let me written. 37 years later we are supposed to say the Thrawn books were good. But they werent. They were JUST good enough to give me a Star Wars fix. I was annoyed at how often the characters recycled the lines from the movie, as if the author KNEW he wasnt capturing the feel of Star Wars and so had to remind us it was Star Wars in another way. Finishing those I moved on. And immediately stopped. Thrawn was just good enough.. the rest I ran across were utter tripe. Cliches, even worse dialog, and complete lack of imagination in just about every way. Luke and Leia were twins...so Jedi babies are twins. Vader commented Luke was powerful because he built a new light saber.. so suddenly that was the big test.. and then..the worst sin of all for me: they brought Palpatine back as a clone. So lame. In the movie it has potential to be worse because its just random. Good stories have foreshadowing and what not. This is just almost like an apology to the fans alienated by the last movie, but not for me.
Now, it could be something else. A hologram recording. An imposter. Something else.
Im not sure the entire new Trilogy "shits" on the original Trilogy. I think a case can be made for TLJ being a sort of giant work of trolldom. But when we think there is 30 years between the movies and that evil doesnt sit still..its ok to let the bad guys come back. The problem of course is in the execution..
I dont buy the excuse about Yoda's quote. It clearly meant that if Luke faced Vader he might die or turn to the dark side and the galaxy would be even worse off. We know that because they brought up "another". If they DO use that excuse to justify things I would be annoyed. I dont like movies changing what they meant.. be clever enough the first time.
The title..Im hoping, because it would be cool to watch...a redemption of Kylo Ren is in the cards and he takes his birth mothers actual last name. But it could be anything.. its not Rey. Im fairly sure.
I read something today saying since this is the last of the saga, not just trilogy, its mostly about tying things up..and it looks like a journey tale which would be new for Star Wars.
Im looking forward to this more than I expected. But I didnt watch the trailer 10 times straight like I did for TFA and Rogue One and TLF.
Since Disney took over, they are all about building a Star Wars for the newest generation. The reason why the OG Trilogy is so revered is because all the 30-50 years old's have grown up and shared this love to their kids or continue to a be fans.
All the people shitting on the Rey Trilogy (with 2/3 of it complete) are basically ignoring the utter mess that is the Prequel Trilogy.
TLJ was about getting away from the Skywalkers + the OG Trilogy because 30-50 years are not the future, they are the current day. No one who grew up on the Prequels are gushing about Podracing and talking about their novella about midichlorians. The new trilogy is about building theme parks, new TV shows, new video games, novels, comics and doing it in a way that makes Disney a ton of money.
Think of the gaps when there were no Star Wars content; between the ROTS and TFA... what Star Wars media did people consume? TV Shows? Novels? Comic Books? Video Games? Of those mediums, none of them drove the franchise like the movies did or have.
This is Disney's attempt to launch a new wave of Star Wars fans that can remembering seeing these movies in the theater and carrying this fandom into their adulthood.
Using this incomplete timeline - Post Disney Takeover and after TFA - of all the official Canon content. If you timeline stamp all of this, a huge majority is released post-takeover. They are trying to rest the bloat and because the Expanded Universe is a mess. This does not mean things are perfect; it just means that I see their goal and I can get behind it. The OG Trilogy is still there, I have like 6 different versions of it (Widescreen VHS, Special Edition Widescreen VHS, Bootleg DVD, SE DVD, SE BluRay, and some Digital versions).
To the new teaser; @Zeb-Stark & @Veda-the-Moor sent the link but I couldn't watch it with sound so I had to just see what was going on. Very hard to get a feel for the story just on the imagery alone but seeing Billy Dee Williams is great; he looks like I would expect him to with capes and that great smile.
From the looks of it, they're going in a direction that I don't think any of us could anticipate which I look forward to. It's part of the reason why TLJ is one of my favorites because it breaks the expectation and the past. #WorldBuilding.
One thing I will say is that the Prequel trilogy is gaining love very rapidly these days, and I think there's two main reasons for that:
One, all the kids who grew up with that trilogy are now in their 20s and early 30s and are really the main bulk of the fan base. They're the ones going to the cons, they're the ones having kids now and they love those movies. They don't look at them negatively like us who are a little older do. They are nostalgic and have very fond memories of those movies and those characters.
Two, it is also this "second" generation of Star Wars fans that grew up with the Prequels and with all of the video games and comic books and Clone Wars cartoons who sort of look at this Sequel Trilogy the way us "first" generation fans looked at the prequels; changing the lore, not going in the direction we wanted it to, falling short of our expectations. There are plenty of first genners who feel this way too, but I think the bulk of the dissatisfaction comes from the second genners.
Me, I consider myself a first generation fan and I have been very vocal about both my dislike of the Prequels and my enjoyment of the Sequels. I like to think I have a pretty good perspective on this. Although I don't think I'll ever really love the Prequels, there's just too much that I fundamentally disagree with and don't enjoy, I will admit that over the past couple of years my hatred for them has been quelled a bit. I think, after looking at it all the way I described in the paragraphs above, I get it now. Seeing the way the fans at Celebration this weekend responded to Ahmed Best (Jar Jar) and Kelly Marie Tran (Rose) was a great thing to see. Two of the most divisive characters in the post-OT Star Wars Universe, both actors who were negatively affected personally because of ignorant, venomous fans, treated this weekend with cheers, tears of joy, and nothing but the utmost love and respect is EXACTLY the type of thing that is going to keep this fan base together and keep these movies and series coming.
@Veda-the-Moor I'm trying really hard to understand your perspective. And obviously you are entitled to your own opinion and feelings about all this and nobody has the right to tell you you should feel otherwise. I just hope that when this is all said and done you'll allow yourself to enjoy the good of it, not let the bad of it ruin it for you, and that you'll give it all a fair shake and not go looking for reasons to be disappointed.
After this Saga is over, and Star Wars continues branching off into new & different media and stories about different characters and different worlds, and it turns into whatever it's going to turn into, we'll always be the generation that grew up with the OT and survived the PT and were lucky enough to get a ST and the promise of Star Wars for the rest of our lives.
The Last Jedi, for all of its faults, has done more to progress and grow the lore of Star Wars than it's getting credit for, and I think that though it make take another 20 years before people realize it, they eventually will. If the Prequels, which probably actually did more harm than good, can survive the fanslaught and end up relatively beloved, then I have no doubt that TLJ will have the same fate.
Here's to hoping that TRoS will be the movie we all want it to be, the movie that can reforge a fractured fan base. I am very much looking forward to enjoying it, myself.
aureus last edited by
To go off on my own tangent.....I'm not confident at all in JJ. If you look at the Star Trek movies he was a part of, he makes pretty movies that are satisfying to watch. That said, for me, they don't develop character and have no real depth or gravitas.
I enjoyed The Force Awakens, it's fine and it holds it's own as a Star Wars Movie, but there aren't many that say it's their favorite or it's the best. For me, it's probably 5th-ish if you include Rogue One. I felt, there were parts to both love and hate, but that's a matter of taste. He made a movie that was familiar but also a reset. So overall, it's fine. I don't find myself having the urge to re-watch it
What Rian did was a travesty but I don't blame him. It's both Kathleen Kennedy and to a larger degree Disney's fault. The went in without a plan and with a multi-billion dollar franchise with a massive fan base it was just plain stupid. TLJ fails on a lot of levels and acting wasn't one of them.
Not all the Marvel movies have been good, but at least they had a plan. With Endgame coming out in 2 weeks, you have to agree that what they created is significantly better and, I think, in large part because they knew how it was going to end going in. I'm sure things changed along the way but to have the overall arc and vision enabled them to create a compelling story with a fandom that is only appreciative.
For Star Wars, I think it leaves them in a hard place to complete the saga well. So I'll be outwardly cautiously optimistic and inwardly fighting my pessimism. Of course there's no way I'm not going to see it so everything I said is a little bit moot......
I have had similar reservations about JJ as well. I loved TFA when it came out but I've cooled on it a little. Mostly only because it didn't do much to advance the actual story and the lore. It did a great job of introducing the new characters and setting the stage for what was to come, so that I appreciate.
But I think JJ understands how important this movie is and how crucial it is to get it right. I don't agree that TLJ was a travesty but I do understand and accept that many people do feel that way, so JJ has the added burden of trying to mend a fractured fan base. And I think he's probably used all of his knowledge and resources to shape a story that will be fun and satisfying for most of us.
I gotta say... Im starting to get a bit more excited for this. For a while I just sort of felt resignation. But the photos released a couple weeks ago..the tid bits here and there.. Im getting a bit more into it.
Completely disagree with @aureus regarding the Marvel situation. But thats for another thread.
Still not in love with this title.
JGfromtheNW last edited by
I really wasn't that stoked for IX until the teaser trailer from a couple months ago and this little "sizzle reel." But now? The hype is starting to build.
Pretty interested to see where they go with Rey looking Sith-y and the Palps voiceover. Is it some type of dream or vision? Is it a Rey clone? Something else?
I'm opening up to the idea of Rey being a clone. It could explain the whole "no parents" thing. Also would make the scene in the cave of Ahch-To make more sense, where Rey sees a countless number of herself in the wall/mirror. Created by Palps to continue the Sith? Created by Palps to move his consciousness into? Hmmmm so much to consider.
What's gonna be interesting is the Star Wars in-fighting that will blame Rian Johnson still.
My level of excitement has been pretty consistent for all sequel trilogies with TFA the highest since it had been so long and we were left with the prequels.
I still take offense when people try to compare the prequel trilogy to the sequel trilogy.
Im going to offend Sammy because while TLJ is 100% better film making by virtue of it simply just having more effort made by the director.. it suffers from so many of the same flaws as the prequels: plots that dont make sense, plots that ignore what we know about Star Wars or suddenly introduce elements that its weird have never been talked about it they are a "thing", a director and script that seem to have forgotten the context and situation that came before. Its not as bad..because its not an exaggeration to say, for example, literally nothing anyone does in Episdoe I from the opening scene on makes any sense at all.. but like I said, it does have a lot of the same flaws, and it has one that they dont have but I wont go into that.
Im getting more pumped for Episode IX. Im hoping they dont go the clone route for Palpatine, but I wouldnt hate it for Rey. I dislike when movies go back to earlier movies and change what something meant or was because it feels so clunky or forced. In the second Pirates of the Caribbean movie when they say the compass points to what you most want.. when the 3rd Bourne movie said his birthday was actually cross streets in NY.. its dumb. If they want to suddenly say Palpatine was doing a bunch of stuff that doesnt feel right I will be pissed.
But some of the stuff looks amazing..and a fleet of completed but empty Star Destroyers out there.. is a cool visual and idea for me.