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**Spoilers!!!** The Last Jedi

  • Last warning..this thread is for talking about The Last Jedi ...with SPOILERS ALLOWED.

    Darth Vader is still dead.

  • Spoilers??? This is Satans thread. OFF WITH YOU SATAN!!

    At least until I see it this Friday night!!!!!!


  • Be afraid. Be very afraid. I'm seeing the Thursday midnight showing here...13 1/2 hours from now. So I can finally get my revenge on the clowns who talk about GoT and The Walking Dead!! Mwahahahaha.

  • this thread shall remain closed until 9pm pacific time tomorrow night!

  • All the titles of the latest Last Jedi reviews have all been positive.

    I haven't clicked on any of them as I don't intend to spoil anything for myself.

    All-in-all, it's been very promising.

    I'm down to about 26.5 hours until I get to see it.

  • Anything other than "I'm seeing the movie" or "I saw the movie" is a spoiler to me.

    Going to have to ban @Veda-the-Moor since he's already seen it. An 11-hour ban should suffice if he keeps writing me outside of the forum or this thread.

  • I literally have no one to talk about. Saw Thursday midnight and 3:20am showings..

    It was awesome. Better than expected. Didn't feel as "paint by numbers" as TFA and I dare say Rian Johnson is a better director than JJ Abrams. Which is a surprise.

    Loved that Snoke died so unexpectedly though is Kylo Ren up to being Supreme Leader?

    Luke dying was more of a shock than Han... and was very, very sad.

    Adam Driver plays his role so well.

    So much to like..I felt it was the most nuanced Star Wars film ever.

    Still digesting..

  • Initial reaction, better than The Force Awakens and Rogue One. Will have to watch it again to see how it stacks in the OG Trilogy or if it falls back after a 2nd viewing.

    So many things happened that truly shocked me.

    At one point after the thrown room fight and the music goes silent, you could have heard a mouse fart, the theater was totally in awe.

    I am now 1,000x more excited for a Rian Johnson trilogy outside of the Skywalker family. There's only one living actor who plays a Skywalker and he's the bad guy.

    Best fan boy moments:

    • Yoda
    • R2 playing the hologram from a New Hope
    • Luke tossing the lightsaber
    • BB-8 dressing up as a Gonk Droid (yes, they have a real name and @Zeb-Stark or @Veda-the-Moor will correct me)
    • Luke returning to the Force
    • The Thrown Room Battle
    • Call waiting scene

    Add the fact that this movie starts almost immediately after The Force Awakens makes me super happy too.

    Need to watch it again!!!!

  • When I'm a computer I will write more.

    The only thing I slightly disagree with is the film starting immediately after TFA. Having movies be a theoretical, off screen two years later creates depth and builds in wiggle room for things we can reference without explanation that make things feel real.

    Watching Kylo and Rey fight on the same side briefly left me in super nerd nirvana. Especially since it felt.. natural.. not contrived. Adam Driver plays emo Kylo so well, the conflict anger and anguish.

    Daisy as Rey is good but I find her a little bland actually.

    Luke milking the manatee thing was awesome and SO Mark Hamill, more so than "Luke", but still cool.

  • Good thoughts guys. I'm going to see it again in a few hours, I'll post my thoughts after. Just no way I can really judge this movie off of one viewing. Way too much going on.

  • A few more thoughts.. I agree that I'm excited about Johnson's trilogy..I think I like his vision of Star Wars a bit more than JJ's.

    A day later in retrospect.. I'm still super stoked. I love the pacing for the most part, I liked Canto Bight even, though that's the only place I wanted them to be more sort of clear cut about things..they seem to have built a beautiful town but not let us see enough of it.

    Liked the new characters and was surprised how much Laura Dern immersed herself into the role and I wasn't distracted by her being well known. Del Toro as well, I was not at all sitting there going "hey! That's Benecio! He played Che!"

    Sounds weird, but I liked how they had so many new amazing looking creatures but didn't focus too much on them. I was really worried about the porgs..but it was under control.

    I thought the humor was better too..TFA I think has just a bit TOO much of pure comedy lines. In Last Jedi there are funny lines but they are delivered more seamlessly I think.

    Just more random thoughts!

  • Alright, two times through and I absolutely love this movie. I felt really weird after the first watch and there was a lot of stuff that didn't sit right with me but the second viewing solved almost all of it.

    Two biggest qualms: Leia surviving in outer space after the explosion, a little too Guardians of the Galaxy for me. It's cool that she got to use the force that way, I just can't deal with people being out in cold dark space and living through it, force or not. If you can do that you're basically invincible.

    Second, I could have done without Cantonica, Canto Bight, the casino, the horses, the slave kids, and the character DJ 100%. The movie needed none of it. It just felt out of place and dragged the story pacing down almost to a halt. They should have just skipped it all together. Only thing that could ever save that for me is if DJ somehow returns and pays off big time in IX a la Lando. Which I assume is their plan.

    Kylo and Rey were amazing. Snoke was fantastic. The Throne Room scene was perfection. Poe and Finn's character development were both well done. Rose was ok, not amazing, but not bad. Holdo was good, her suicide light speed attack was BADASS. Luke was great and hilarious when he needed to be, dramatic when he needed to be, and a gangster when he needed to be. I'm glad Leia got as much screen time as she did and it was good to see Threepio get some good lines. The new Force powers are crazy and super cool. Hux was good. Phasma was better than the last one but still underutilized. Crate was cool looking. Yoda!!!

    All the symbolism and throws to the original trilogy were super subtle and tasteful and impactful. All the twists and reveals were surprising and powerful and clever. Rian Johnson did an amazing job with all that, even if his pacing and tone are a little mixed.

    So episode IX is basically a blank slate. They left us with a lot less to speculate on this time and JJ has his hands full trying to top this one and wrap up the saga. Only 733 days till we get to find out what happens!

  • A



    Holy Snokes! I loved that flick! For me, it never dragged, I was never disinterested, I mean my mind didn't drift at all. Total focus, and thats not me At All! The fight with Rey and Kylo in the Thrown/Throne Room was spectacular. The movie was so visually gorgeous and exciting. Crystal fox/doggies were cool.... did I mention I loved this movie!! So surprised it was that much better than I imagined. Yeah, this Star Wars movie did it for me. The Last Jedi - #1, Empire #2. Rogue - #3, New Hope - #4, Force Awakens - #5. No idea why I threw out a top 5 but there ya go!! I'm too giddy... I gotta go read Last Jedi articles now that I can without getting spoiled!

  • @veda-the-moor said in Star Wars: Episode VIII The Last Jedi (Spoiler Free):

    In the spoiler thread I'd be interested in hearing more about what had you feeling unsure the first time, Zeb. It blew me away the first time and the second... I had (have) just a couple minor quibbles.

    It just threw me off; the tone, the pacing, the jokes, the dialog. It was so far off from what I was expecting (not that I even know what I was expecting anymore). It came together about halfway through and then the weight of exactly what was happening was so big that I just don't think I processed it all the way so I left the theater not knowing if I actually, honestly liked the movie or not. And not just the movie itself, but the implications of what it meant for Star Wars going forward.

    But here's the thing: I left Rogue One feeling very much the same way (minus the long lasting implications stuff) and it took me 2-3 watches for it to all click for me. The Last Jedi only took a second watch and I got it. It all made sense. Rian Johnson is a genius and he made a beautiful movie full of all the things I didn't even know I wanted to see and I absolutely trust him going forward with the franchise.

    But I think my initial reaction says more about me than it does about the movie itself. I have so much invested in these movies, I anticipate them like nothing else and they mean so much to me, that when I'm finally sitting in that theater I just don't think I'm capable of taking it all in and processing it the way I should. I think I pay so much attention to how it looks and sounds and feels that I kind of miss the point. I think I dissect it so intently that I have trouble accepting the big picture of it all. And I want everything to be perfect, which is unfair. So I go into that second viewing with the intention of accepting the movie for what it is and being a better viewer and it all came together.

    And now I absolutely love it and I will talk to you guys again in a few hours after viewing #3.

  • So..Im not sure about this but its been growing in my head:

    I'm starting to think maybe I wish the new trilogy wasn't made. This thought has grown out of a conversation I had with Sammy in texts and with another friend.

    Now let me be clear.. I LOVE the new Trilogy. And I'm not saying for a second I want Rogue One to not have been made.

    But the new trilogy, I understand now 2 years later better than I did at the time.. actually takes a LOT away from the original trilogy.

    I watched farmboy Luke Skywalker transform from a young, inexperienced day dreamer to a Jedi knight with the "most serious mind".. from someone who got outsmarted by an R2 unit to someone who could resist the Emperor AND Vader at the same time, in the same room. Defeat one and frustrate the other. Luke was a mythological person, someone out of a fairy tale..which was what Lucas' intention was (back before he was killed an replaced by aliens in about 1996). He destroyed the first Death Star, defeated Evil.. and then got to meet his mentors one more time in the their ghost shapes as his redeemed father's remains burned.

    After 1983 there were no more movies. There were books but I learned quickly to ignore the "extended universe", it was 99% poorly written fan fiction. Even the revered Thrawn books were strong with a few ideas but poor in execution actually. So.. after 1983.. Luke was in stasis in my mind. Always the hero. I was just growing out of playing with toys in 1983..but collected a bit longer and occasionally still took them out. I actually remember the last time I "played" Star Wars with my figures in 1985. I don't remember the adventure I sent Luke on. But I can assure you, it was heroic and he succeeded.

    And Han Solo had finally stopped being "solo", he'd grown and let himself formally join the Alliance. And Lando also had put aside , partially, his scoundrel side. Certainly would never sell out a friend again.

    The good guys had one, the Jedi restored. The Sith banished. I didn't even really know what the Sith were in the 80s.. the best clues were in the novelization of the first movie.. but details were vague..but I knew Darth Vader was a lord of them!

    But..what did it all mean then? And how much were we just wrong? Within 30 years Kylo Ren was the new Darth, good was on the run again, new Death Stars built, Han left, R2 shut down (!?), and Luke..

    Luke. Luke. Luke for 30 years was a hero in my mind.. but back on the screen I find that Han's kid destroyed everything? Luke, destroyer of Darth Vader, resister of the Emperor.. was bested by a KID he was teaching? He isn't a hero anymore, but a broken man living where no one can find him, unwilling to face his past even when meeting Chewbacca? I mean...I get his point the Jedi must end if freaking every 4th one turns into a Sith lord, but maybe its just HIS FAMILY that should stop being jedi because apparently they aren't very good at it: Darth Vader - evil bastard, Luke , apparently a failure, Ben Solo -- emo Sith.

    So..I don't get to keep any of my heroes? And none of the sacrifices made in the original trilogy matter? And Luke wasn't the only hope because a generation later the situation was even worse?

    Han dumped Leia, Luke failed at making even a single new Jedi.. so badly that even Yoda is saying "you know what.. Jedi's are better off just organically emerging..because if YOU teach them, well..damn..." For 1000 generations jedi had to be taught.. Yoda taught them for 900 years! 900!!! Since the Norman invasion of England until NOW basically.. but if Luke is the Jedi master, well.. everyone better just not go to that school..

    The new movies are amazing. Great. Fun to watch. Maybe even more "realistic"..and "gritty" the way we apparently want everything these days. It reminded me of Battlestar Galactica in many ways.. EVERY character is flawed except Leia and Rey, there are now semi guided missiles, the fighters maneuver more like them.. the TIE Silencer looks like a Cylon Raider.. None of that is bad.

    But I wonder , I worry..I MOURN.. the meaning of them. It means really, the original trilogy is no longer " a fairy tale for those who grew up without fairy tales".. more than anything, they move Star Wars into just another movie franchise. A cool one in a cool universe. But.. I kind of wish now that they had skipped this and gone straight into the non connected Rian Johnsons next trilogy. Let my heroes alone. Let my childhood remain intact. Let my 1985 ideas of Luke, Jedi Knight training new Jedi and hunting down those that would seek to find Yoda or kidnap his sister to hijack the Republic remain..

    Maybe..just maybe Luke deserved better and we know have some context to Mark Hamill's objections.

  • @veda-the-moor Loved that post. Only problem I have with it is... its exactly why I love the new stuff!! I love that Luke is a wreck Han went back to doing the stuff he's always done, AND his kid turned out to be a effed-up SW version of a school shooter. I was heartbroken when Han got killed, but by his own kid?? In some ways I can't really put into words it was perfect for the new movie series. Luke re-gained Hero status by saving the rebellion at a time it was going to be completely snuffed out. Now they can continue their fight because of him. I like that he faded out like Yoda. I know its most likely something they all do but thats what I thought of when It happened.

    The OG Trilogy was perfect for me at the time. It was easy to digest for me. Good guy, bad guy, Good team, bad team. Cowboys and Indians. But I've aged and with that I've been been beaten over the head with "Shit Happens". Life is not fair. If Luke was still heroic and was all the way through his life I probably would have been pissed. Its not that I don't believe in "Happily ever after" but you gotsta have some lows to make the highs that much sweeter. Luke's coming back and being a Hero again is a prime example. It was like Oh Snap! They woke up Grand Dad! Then he waltzes out and bails out the entire family.

    Look, I'm not as deep as you guys are. I never got into the books and things.I never really got into deep discussions about the Star Wars lore. Kinda had no one to do that with. But I don't consider myself a casual fan. I love Star Wars. These movies make me not only happy, but really interested in it all again. Its back on the forefront of my life. Seahawks, Song writing, Donuts and STAR WARS. Its a great time to be alive, ain't it!!

    P.S. I can't believe I'm going to submit this when I wrote it before coffee.

  • Great discussion. I have to side with @Birdfinger on it though. Remember, World War I was "the war to end all wars" and then 20 years later we got World War II.

  • @zeb-stark said in **Spoilers!!!** The Last Jedi:

    Great discussion. I have to side with @Birdfinger on it though. Remember, World War I was "the war to end all wars" and then 20 years later we got World War II.

    But I don't consider WWI a fairy tale.. and Churchill was a hero in WWI..and still heroic in WWII.

    And I get that society has changed so Star Wars can change.. things are more hard core now so Star Wars should be less.."hokey".. Except, not. I mean, if you look at the movies being made in 1977 and thereabouts.. the movies generally WERE sort of the hard boiled, gritty movies. The country was just a few years past the end of the Vietnam War, the social revolution of the 60s was still being digested.. disco was the rage, groupies, coke and what wife swapping were the rage..

    And among that was Star Wars..something very different.. a chance to see a simple good and bad. A time for a rogue, a princess and a peasant to save the galaxy.

    I don't know that we needed to sacrifice our heroes to tell a new story.

    Again, I enjoy the movies immensely.. but now I have a "but..".

  • @veda-the-moor I don't think they were sacrificed. Well maybe Han. But Luke went out a hero. He had a rough go for a while, but came back and saved the rebels and possibly the entire galaxy if the rebels can get their business together. HERO! Leia. She's still a big shot in the rebellion. And most importantly.... Chewy's still kickin'!! The droids haven't been decommissioned yet. I don't get the sacrificed part, aside from Han. They were back! Old as dirt but back! Watching them kick off is kinda cool. Like we know their entire life story. Not only is the baton being passed but it must be passed. They got old. They were and always will continue to be heroes.

  • @veda-the-moor said in **Spoilers!!!** The Last Jedi:

    @zeb-stark said in **Spoilers!!!** The Last Jedi:

    Great discussion. I have to side with @Birdfinger on it though. Remember, World War I was "the war to end all wars" and then 20 years later we got World War II.

    and Churchill was a hero in WWI..and still heroic in WWII.

    Exactly! Just like Luke & Leia. We can blame Abrams for how they handled Han Solo.

  • Excellent discussion everyone.

    Moreso than anything else, it proves how passionately people feel about these movies.

    I agree with @Veda-the-Moor that the originals are changed because we don't get the happily ever after we saw after the Emperor is killed and the 2nd Death Star blown up... But I love the world building that is taking place.

    With the addition of Rogue One I am so happy with the direction the franchise is taking.

    TFA took the safe route and helped people get excited again about Star Wars. TLJ got me excited for the universe again.

  • I'm personally glad we didn't get "happily ever after". If that were the case there would be no more story and I am so happy there is more story. Return To Oz is another one where we find out that things have fallen to shambles after the happy ending we got in Wizard of Oz and it makes the whole world so much more real and enjoyable to me. Narnia is another one where they embrace the idea that the peace after a victory by the good guys only lasts so long. I love it. Especially since Luke & Leia got a chance to be heroes again after all the shit that went down.

  • See..I disagree that giving us "happily ever after" means no more story.

    The Star Wars galaxy is large.. instead of this trilogy coming out they could have done what they will do next.. a Star Wars trilogy set in the same galaxy but in a different part and/or a different time.

    Or you can tell a story of Luke struggling to balance his power and influence as post ROTJ he continues to grow in the Force but has no more constant guidance.

    How about a story where the New Republic rejects him AND Leia, and he is still there protecting it but limited in what he can do because he has to do it stealthily.. until a threat grows too great and the New Republic come to him in "their most desperate hour" because he has become "their only hope"...?

    Saw the movie again yesterday. (I eat a LOT more popcorn during that movie than other movies.. its weird..). Still love watching it.

    But still don't really buy that Luke, after staring down Vader and the Emperor.. after being a wild eyed optimist and a solemn Jedi.. just gives up, forsakes the galaxy to Kylo Ren and Smoke and just hides. No sense of responsibility even for protecting the Republic from Kylo and Snoke? No desire to try again (..hes never ever trained even a single Jedi...?)? The same Luke you saw jump into an infinite pit at Bespin just yells uncle because Kylo turned? That is NOT Luke.

    Beyond that there are lots of story continuity issues...

    The Resistance is NOT the side that are Rebels. They are the far right of the government. But by the end of opening scroll this movie wants to use that term. I'm not sure if Rian Johnson didn't get the premise of the last one or a Disney focus group said "call them rebels, people like that".

    C-3POs arm changed back. Not a big deal, but it mention. You went and wrote a whole story about why it was red.. can we have SOME follow through.


    I love that Rey's parents were nobodies. That was what I had argued for for the 2 year gap we nerded out over it. That said.. I did see them leave the planet in a space ship.

    So..the Resistance was the government.. and the First Order blew up the government like..5? days ago.. right? And then hours later they lost the base they had presumably put all their time, energy and resources into building.. So, why exactly is it that they are no in charge..? or that they will control every system in the galaxy within "weeks"? If anything I would think it would sort of be anarchy time in the galaxy with at least those two sides trying to vie for influence.

    Lightsabers are lightsabers and when there are tons and tons of similar weapons that can also do the same thing or make hand to hand combat possible against them, then it cheapens light sabers. The thrown room scene is cool. But , again, I'm conflicted.

    Maz's place got blown up days ago after being there for 1000 years.. would she be in a blaster battle..? Nothing more poignant we can do with that character instead of constantly trying to be edgy and cool?

    Since I know how negative I'm sounding I'm just going to name some of the stuff I like, love, or am amazed at:

    The "nuns" who keep up the Jedi island. Sort of Fraggle Rockish and how Star Wars used to do its creatures..I like that look and thought they were cool.

    The Force Bridge between people.. really feels "Force-y" and such potential and awesomeness.

    Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer, his spinning and making it cool (in contrast to Episode I.....), and Adam Driver being the 2nd best person this year at expressing something with just his face while flying, deciding not to shoot Leia's ship. (best person at this in 2017 was Tom Hardy in Dunkirk.. playing his role as a Spitfire pilot and being SO expressive with his eyes and small body movements.. go watch it).

    The return to WWII aerial combat as the inspiration .. the Resistance Bombers..flying slow and level over a target, with gunners in them..being protected by fighters.. so cool. And Page was a great character we lost too soon.

    The commander of the Dreadnaught being the smartest guy in the First Order fleet..actually getting whats going on.. but alas, dying too soon. Would have been cool to have a competent adversary!

    I liked all the creatures in the movie, and that they were pushed on us too hard. I thought that was excellent self control and they actually added to the movie.

    Though obviously I'm mixed about Luke being on that planet to begin with , seeing his X-Wing in the water was an awesome moment.

    Kylo Ren leaving red foot prints in the salt..while Luke doesn' the first hint.. so awesome.

    Chewbacca flying while Rey man's the guns.. awesome.

    and finally some ..wishes. Not gripes at all but more "wouldn't it have been cool ifs"..

    I wish Kylo had kept his mask. I really liked it and the voice. and at his probably helps lend more of an aura of intimidation.

    more chances to blast stormtroopers somewhere please..

    Spent a lot of time and money to film in Croatia but were never really got clear views.. maybe a wasted chance for cool scenery there.

    Would have liked a real lightsaber duel.

  • So, my friend Mark rewrote The Last Jedi into something more he wanted to see. With his permission his film treatment is here:

    Message body
    That is it. I am done and I nailed it. This is the movie I wanted to see:

    Act 1: Largely the same. Evacuation of the base/battle and rebel escape/Rei meets grumpy Luke/Poe gets reprimanded for being a fly-boy and brushes it off.

    Act 2: The chase and time constraint is established. Finn/Rose/Poe hatch the plan to throw off the light speed tracking system, go to Snoke’s ship to accomplish it, and after some antics, they get captured. Meanwhile Rei trains with Luke.

    Establishing: (1) Rei is attracted to the dark side (2) Luke is haunted by his failure with Kylo and is trying desperately to study the Jedi texts to find a way to defeat Snoke. He feels he can’t return unless he can save everyone and extinguish the dark side, but it is an impossible task and burden for him. (3) Rei is again looking for a father figure and Luke refuses to fill the role.

    Act 3: Rei has visions of the capture of her friends and, unlike Yoda, Luke doesn’t try to stop her from going to save them. She races with Chewie to save them. The two are captured and she is brought to Snoke, and Snoke is not an evil caricature, but is kind to her and encourages her to focus her anger to make things better, restore order, and offers to let the rebels live if she joins him. She finds the father figure to show her her place and she goes to the dark side. Kylo becomes jealous and kills Snoke. Fight with the guards. Rei helps slightly in this effort and her “journey to the dark side” is advanced.

    Meanwhile Finn and Rose deal with torture and harassment from Captain Phasma. Throw some slave kids in the prison for extra effect and Rose can complain about her hard life. Chewie joins them in the prison, everyone gets on the same page.

    Act 4: The rebels arrive at the salt base. Leia does the cruiser kamikaze into Snoke’s ship. It is made clear that Poe’s previous cockiness made it so that this was the only alternative. Leia’s death distracts Kylo and he is defeated. Rei is about to kill Kylo and is given the chance to become the new Emperor. Somehow at this moment in the chaos, finally Rei and Finn cross paths — and Rei realizes her mistake as Finn is the only real connection that she has and she saves the gang. They escape to the base together on the Falcon prepped by Chewie. Kylo is anointed new Emperor, has mad insecurities.

    Act 5: Assault on the base: basically the same, but instead the rebels just get pounded by an insecure Kylo. The Falcon is destroyed in the process, showing how dire the situation is. Rei calls out to Luke. A seed planted earlier by Rei (something like her parroting something Yoda once said), sprouts. Luke does what he does. The rebels escape and hope is faint. Rei is ashamed of her failure, Finn is shaken by Rei’s dark side, Poe is traumatized that his impulsivity was the catalyst for the chain of events. It is made clear that Chewie stole the Jedi texts from Luke.

    Thoughts on that? I think its pretty good. I'm working on my own at the moment actually. He tried to stay close to what the movie actually had. Mine is a more open concept. Will post when finished!

  • These movies mean so much and we all are capture by different things.

    I get people want different things than what they got.

    I fully enjoy the new movies and what they are doing for the franchise/universe.

    Rethinking what could have been is a fun exercise but something I stay away from. I am a passenger on this space flight and have been enjoying the ride thoroughly.

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